BERLIN 2003: ANDY PENN
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About This Video
Berlin 2003: Andy Penn. A portrait from Van's Berlin documentary project, capturing an American artist's experience in the German capital. Van was 28. The Deutsche Guggenheim was the anchor. The city was the subject.
Transcript
oh my God in 2003 I lived in Berlin as part of Tom Sax's nsis installation at
the Deutsche gugenheim I was 28 years old and I had a social life there and through friends I met a bunch of
Americans who were living in Berlin at the time this was 2 years after September 11th 2001 and I began filming
these interviews on September 11th 2003 I wanted to this is a project where
we're um interviewing as many Americans who live here as we can and I wanted to talk to some Germans here about like
their opinions of the Americans and stuff and I thought that you it would be interesting to talk to you because you have both points of view you grew up
behind the wall on the east side and now you're kind of intermingled so I guess the first question I'd ask you is like
what's the big difference between the way you grew up and then after the wall came down you can think of
okay I don't know I think because before the Wall came down it was um I mean it was more simple definitely because you
you it just was based on I mean I also was a kid you know you don't think that much about the stuff you don't re re you
don't question things that much but um it was more about I don't know the next
street and your relatives your friends and yeah because you know the most wealthiness thing what you could
get at Easter Germany was maybe a car and you have to wait for it uh for like sometimes six or seven years so you subscrib into a list when you do a
driver's license then you have to wait and you have to pay [ __ ] lot of money for it for Eastern German money and so
it it wasn't really it wasn't really about like who has the newest clothes and and and stuff and this is this is
not really changed for me after this after the war came down and also for my friends because we I think we're I don't know we're not different but we are just
a special kind of people like everyone else is special but we are like this way and but it's more like you see on the
street about um advertising and and it's it's definitely more glamorous
this is what you definitely can say yeah it's the main yeah from from the feelings I think yeah and I was actually
you know in in because Eastern German Germany was really safe so when the Wall came down because what you sometimes
there was a show on TV called thewat Canal the black Channel and was a weekly show I think about Western German TV so
then they picked up up only the the worst scenes you know like demonstrations with Street riots and I
don't know like um homeless people and stuff so you see all like gangs in the streets and you for this I was in the
first moment really scared you know because I mean there was only a wall and there's points in East Berlin where you can see you know you can you can see the
wall and you can not see what's directly behind it but you can see buildings after it and it was really close but I also couldn't I couldn't really imagine
that it's like just because this wall the world is totally different there but I was a little bit scared that I cannot go to streets through streets because
they're like I don't know violent kids I don't know yeah so how old were you when you met your
first American person uh I think it was I was 177 or something and yeah but this I found out later and this is really interesting because um in in like education and all what you know
about America at Eastern German times it was it was the enemy you know it was a bad guys but when you think about um you
know what kids play there there was in Eastern Germany still this feeling about like Sheriff being sheriff or something you know you could in Hungaria you could
buy matchbox as cars for kids and we always had you know when you had a police car it was like yeah this is the
[ __ ] police man you know it's it's different so it was kind of weird
because um you know that I don't know if I knew at this time time because I was too young but you know I get told that
um America is bad and it's capitalistic system and and it's crime and violence
and money and [ __ ] and but we also were fascinated by you know by the way how America looks you know like you know
because I don't know for us the Eastern German police car looked [ __ ] boring and American police car was like yes you
know and this is so it was really really funny but later I I I explored to myself
that I when the war came down and it's really scary right now because um there I mean I I watch now like two Michael
Moore films and these are realistic films it's not it's you know it's not um Fiction it's real what they show and the
scary thing is it could be a broadcast of Eastern Germany what they show about America and this is the scary thing you
know that I thought before okay they're just telling you the worst things about America but now you see from American the truth and it's really like this you
know and but I become um I don't know more and more I I I I found out that I I
don't know I have special love to America because of the people you know because of this the way how this nation grew up you
know it's I don't when I when I think about America I don't think about government I don't think about when I think about the love to America I don't
think about um big companies but I do think about people in McDonald's for example or like I don't know gas
stations in the desert and about this um Simplicity because it's of course it's not I don't know I guess because I've
only been in Portland um but for me it's I guess it's um it's a kind of
Simplicity in a different way like in Eastern Germany Simplicity is like okay I meet my friends at McDonald's and then
I don't know and I once when I'm big I want to buy this car but it's also true you know and it's really honest you know
it's because and I think the problem is more about why is it that people need it you know and this is and I don't know I like the and also
it's an interesting Nation because um it's just like a mixed up Nation you know from all the The Outlaws in the in
in the beginning of Europe and wherever they come from you know and they they it's a multiculture nation you were 17
when you first met first American was that someone your age or no was older it was a a friend of a school friend of
mine so and it was but it was actually it for me this what this was because they um I
don't know where originally come from but they lived long time in Portland and I visit them also later in Portland and Portland was for me you know I okay I I
have all my I had all my bad experience you know or like expectations of America like fat people rich people and only
poor people but when I wasn't Portland it looked like punks and alternative people so it for me it felt like the good side of America you know and so
when I met him here this guy for me it was really the other side and then this was also the main thing where I explored
there must be something else there you know well wa the other side meaning it's not not this what you think about America when you think about the bad
things you know like I don't know lazy I don't know you know like that you everything is about your new car and
[ __ ] yeah so it was it was more I mean I don't know it was more Community thing
day when you meet kids the American kids here today like the people like our age and stuff do you find that there's a
common concern like what do you think all these kids who mov to Berlin if they have anything in common
de I don't know I mean I think um could be be that B that Berlin right now is a really interesting place you
know because it's lots of music and definitely mostly music and I don't know lifestyle maybe but I don't think that
that these kids who are coming to America from America are coming here for lifestyle it's more about the it's also
a cheap here you know and you can know you can really work as an artist you know you it's not about caring about how
you live it's really focusing on your work and I don't know I've heard from
from some people that some come came here because what happened after September 11 you know oh or like you
know when George Bush's uh junior came in power you know so I don't know it's maybe it's
it's like running away something but I don't know I mean I don't want to I don't you know this could be but I cannot say it
you know it's like they know what come here I know you've touched on like Michael Moore and stuff but like what
are some of the things you've read like either you know um pertaining to um
September 11th or you've shown me this book by I can't you can you cannot pronounce his name I don't know it's I
just read I mean after September 11th um I got I really read like three or four books about American policy but or more
about the the ways what's behind it you know and I don't know from I mean in the
beginning why I was interested in it was um to read stuff about because I mean I I was always be into conspiracies you
know but I've learned in the process of reading that conspiracy for me is just only a different way of reality you know
and it becomes more has the same becomes more and more that it has the same power than reality because reality is man
manipulated too so and I don't know and I um but there's also you know September
11 changed a lot of things you know I think this is It's a day what everyone in the world who has like access to
newspaper radio or TV won't ever forget in his life because in the first I don't know 3 hours after this
happened um I think everyone thought okay now now they do the big big war
and in the end they did on some ways you know but it wasn't just it wasn't another War like you know like airplanes
bombing something it was like more quiet war and I don't know and I I it's like it's like different emotions what coming
in my head you know when I when I when I remember this day because the first thing was um because I had no no really
personal relationship to New Yorkers because I didn't knew anyone um but on the other hand um I know that Lots mean
I'm a musician here so I'm interested in music a lot so I know that lots of musicians who talk about the different
America and don't promote the normal ones they live in New York so I think it was kind of sad although sad is a really
stupid word for this because it's you cannot describe what happened there so but it was kind of sad in a way that
they hit whoever did it because I don't really want to I don't really want to say that ter these terrorists did it you
know um but who whoever who did it he actually the city in America what I find out found out more and more who's
actually not really America you know it's like Berlin in Germany you know so maybe everyone in Germany votes for like
conservatives but Berlin definitely wouldn't vote for conservatives so I think like it was a the center of of
sophisticated subversion in America so they hit actually the wrong on you know I thought but on the other hand It's like because I thought about the
the whole thing how you receive it you know when you watch TV I sat there TV and first I was on internet and I read one plane crashed in the World Trade
Center and I thought okay did I shoot a movie now so and then I saw and I couldn't actually believe it and after
the buildings came down and what you also now this is I think the main question for me is um
after it just from the feelings what I had is how do we want to explain this what happened to kids you know to kids
who grew up like 5 years later because they know I mean 90% of all books about America they have the Twin Towers so and
and they maybe they see they go to New York and they ask their parents hey where are the [ __ ] Twin Towers you know and then you tell them the stories
two planes crashed in this and and the buildings uh fall apart and this is it's
so surreal it's so like a like a I don't know like a fairy tale and it's so I don't know it's like I I don't know I
want to think about the way how how you can explain it to someone because it's it seems like it's not you cannot
explain it and I think it's sad after this um um there was a I don't know there was a movie in the last berala
movie festival and where they talked about um September 11th and this was short
before the war against Iraq um where they talked about like the opinions of like directors and artists
you know who are related to film and there was one guy who's from England I think it was has related to BBC or something who said something really
interesting and this is what I felt too he said um actually I mean what happened was really really sad but after this in
the next I don't know two months America had a really big chance to start over again and this is what I thought too you
know on the next day I thought okay now the new impulses for changing things has to come from art and not from because
art is the only language what can transport feelings you know because you cannot you cannot talk in speeches in
the I don't know in the senate or on the street you cannot talk rationally about what's happening that's why new
influence for starting over again have to come from art and the sad thing for me is like there's two ways you know one
in this moment one way is okay everyone actually knew that America
would react military wise on this um on this situation and and this is so
everyone knew it but I thought okay there must be another way you know and it was really sad to see that it's going to the same way for me it's really like
a spiral you know it's like okay no same procedure attack on America war against the enemy but instead of stopping the
spiral in this way and thinking about why does anyone in the world wants to kill us Americans or like do Terror um
and bomb attempts to America why is this happening what what's the reason for this and spending all the money what
they spend in like I don't know Warfare and [ __ ] in like researching the the the reasons for this they would come to a different point you know they would come
to the point that like I don't know people you know if it's about the people in Afghanistan and if it's really about bin NAD what I'm really not sure but I
wouldn't also say that it's definitely not him I'm just not sure um if it's if
it's about them then you have to think why do they do that you know has it to do with American uh relations in
Afghanistan or did they just or is it just a religion this I mean this is what they say you know it's the easiest way to displ us just a religion because this
is a [ __ ] evil religion but and on the other hand these guys would say yeah like I don't know the Western world is
an evil world but it's actually the same like I experience you know in Eastern Germany and after the war you know because I was I was in Eastern Germany
in school and I was in Western Germany in school so I had both two different views to the world you know so um there
must be something between this you know so I found out this is ideology and the gap between you have to find by yourself
you know and this is that's why I think it's sad you know just to to start over and this and this is the most saddest
thing after this is like if it's only be about um American government after
September 11 who wants to make a war but I don't know why it is because maybe it's about the news agencies but you you
see so many proud American an and we have to fight the devil now although I mean they experienced like I don't know
two months before how they City get hit and I don't I don't cannot believe that they want that every everyone else in
the world um has to go through this so I'm wondering you know instead of saying let's stop this [ __ ] [ __ ] wall kind
of stuff forever or no and this is this is sad that it's that I think it's the only thing what's really scary for for
Europeans and especially for Germans because Germans have a really strange um relation to their history into a
patriotism for us it's really scary to see how they say how they put the flags everywhere and say America we the
country of God or something and this is um because we I mean we we had this once year you know in Germany this all
happened before you now and now we know what is is now we're really sensitive but this is also our chance you know
actually after World War I we had a pretty good chance to change things you know and I think somehow we did it on
other ways I don't know but um this is something what I you know I ask myself
doesn't do it needs another big [ __ ] war against America with lots of dead people and with a destroyed Nation for
America to realize that they don't need war and to change things and this is like I think it's about human Humanity
you know to think about you don't need to wait till it's so bad that you cannot change it anymore although but when you
know that you only know the situation now but you think in the future how it will go on and go on and the spirals
going on and coming war and War and War instead of just you know right now it's it's a good chance you know there a good
chance for Germany for everyone you know yeah and it's a good chance about for Americans too and this is also the thing you know and this the sad thing is that
like lots of people say Okay America is Badness again because you know what they did with um war on terror this whole
[ __ ] and on the other hand I think you know actually know the thing what we as Europeans and rest of the world should
do we should support American people not the government the people that they decide what they really want to do that
they found out what worth in life is it have the newest car and don't pay that
much for gasoline or is it um to be you know is it something else you know to be
to have friends and to you know not related to economic system but how how
do you get that message across when um as you know people in our
position when your competition is is this really elaborate and sophisticated and well-funded
um you know machine can I have a light while I'm talking about I'm just come um
this uh you know you have this big uh money well- financed money machine that's in charge of you know the
government and in charge of the media and the companies and stuff and they're the ones getting the Americans to think and act the way they do I mean of course
the individual have the responsibility but they work for these companies you know so how like what's
the what's our role or what's people who feel like they're empowered and they want to make a change and like because
to me it's like part of the reason why I want to do this this piece is to show kids in America like this like kid like
Punk kids who go to [ __ ] Coline High School who like are just like feel like they don't know
like this is like it feels so wrong to them and everyone is telling them it's right and these [ __ ] [ __ ] like jocks who are dicks are the ones who
Excel and everything um H how do we get the message across to change the way to to get people to start riding their bikes
to work when our competition are is the entire umbrella of of the nation yeah I
don't know on one hand is of course um in the beginning is already made you know what you just said it's like um
when people realize that what they see on TV what they always thought is right you know this is the truth becomes
something what they see and they and they feel they tell me the truth but I feel right now I look around myself and this is not the truth you know for
example like I don't know they say um you know I think in this Michael Mo Movies this was good you know they could watch TV and could see America is really
successful like economies are bigger and bigger and then they're sitting in their city and see that their friends don't have work and I don't have work and like
another plant is closing you know so obviously what they telling you on TV is not true so I think the um the main
ideas is not I think before you start changing someone else you have to look deep in yourself you know and find out
what you really want you know do you do you really need to I don't know do you really need
to do certain things like driving a car or or let's say of course you needed to drive a car when you live in a
Countryside this is no question but do you when you think about okay I could drive the car now but I only because
this is what how I think I only can do it for a 30 more years and then there's a point that I cannot afford it anymore or do I stop now and don't come to the
point where I have a second TV uh set and a second VCR player and I have all the [ __ ] and it won't work because I
don't have energy anymore and this is all this is like small things you know and I think it's about to
promote maybe it's about to promote the or like to get connect the people you know like that's not only one
that they you know that they see I'm here and I don't think that this is a reality what they tell me on TV and
another one says says the same thing you know so it's about to speak out what you think you know it's about it's about you
know when you think something is wrong and you have to talk about it you know and not say oh I cannot change anything you know and even it's not and also on
the other hand it's also not you don't need in the beginning to have the ultimate answer on anything because you're not a politician you know because
I think about this fact you know imagine someone works from I don't know 8:00 in the morning
till 9 or he's home at 99 in the afternoon and so he wakes up have
breakfast goes to work for like 2 hours works there comes back and at home at 9:00 and he's totally tired and of course I totally understand that he
nothing wants to do anymore than just switching on TV and relax a little bit you know so I think um he this person
cannot do anything about it in the the beginning but I think there are so many that's why I think about the creatives you know because networks and TV shows
they need people who are creative and I just I don't know I just I want and I
don't want them but I I wish that they see that they can change things you know like they don't you know they open in
the end it's about open their minds you know even if it's about um to do you know the one the guy who works for in
the advertising company what is actually a really um difficult situation because advertising is really related to selling
product so they kind of need to talk things beautiful although they maybe aren't but it's about to to make new
ways you know to maybe or they quit their job but you can you cannot expect from someone to quit
their job because it's in the end that's that's the main problem you know maybe like 20 years ago you can say okay I
quit this job because I can do I can work next week in this and this office you know but it's going more and more to the point that there are not that much
jobs left so you have to do this although you don't like it and I think about Crea creatives that they can
change things because they cannot they can't change the rules and maybe everyone said oh you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] and you don't you change the
rules and this is not what we want but they do art in this way because they change things you know and I'm really
sorry but I I don't have a really um explanation I don't have a solution for this but it's it's like how I feel you
know when I just doing and maybe sometimes it's and the sad thing about art art scene I think I mean I'm not
that much into art scene it's not that I don't like it it's just like um I don't know that many people in the art scene
but for me it's what I would like to see more um doing know stuff who's related
to something so for example I hate Mercedes Benz so I do an art piece against mercedesbenz but for me this is
a relation to mercedesbenz so it has to do with uh with mercedesbenz you know but the idea is do something else you know what has nothing to do with
mercedesbenz and nothing to do with anti- mercedesbenz but do something what is better than both of our this you know so just think more you know don't react
against something react for something for something new what you like to explore so when you talk when you get in
discussions with your friends about like discuss of what's going on today like what what kinds of things do you talk
about like is there an is there like an anti-American sentiment or no I don't I
don't know for I mean for me we are I mean I play in a band and we were on
tour um when the Iraq War started and I remember we played in constant the night before the Iraq War started and we have
a song called M sper called power G and English is power games and there's this line I mean for everyone every like
sophisticated listener who's really into like intellectual things he think we our
singer things I hate the wall and it's repeated and then I love the life and
people think it's too naive but this was our message you know it's about I hate the War and what you do with it do
something else not war and we before we played the song we talk to the people we just our singer just talk to the people
on the stage that you know we're living pretty good here you know so actually right now we don't actually we we
shouldn't care about the war you know if you really see it like egotistical but um
that's why but that's why you need to think about you know it's you cannot go only flow in the in the like the the flow of life like a river you know just
jump in and just like okay the next good situation will come so it's about you know humans have the possibility to
think about so and we thought about and we we talked we told them although it's a really nice concert right now there is
it seems like or everyone talks about there's going to be a new war and I actually I me I'm [ __ ] optimist I was
on stage the whole time and thought I don't know something's going to change the UN is against the War I don't know Germans and France and Russia against
the war it was actually a really special feeling to be a German and have the feeling of to be against the war although when you look really close to
it it was just another Pol political decision you know because it's just more clever to be against the war but anyway
it's a statement to say no we don't support America and I believe the whole time in the fact that there's no war and then we went
overnight in our nightliner to T in Switzerland I woke up opened the newspaper and there it's written the war is
there and I thought okay there's two ways we could say Okay War's there whatever we did before it won't change
anything so we stop it no but this is what what I wanted to know to continue this and we will continue this till the
War stopped you know and there's only there's I don't think that there's less people who who join people who are
against Wars it's only getting more and more and know and and actually you have to see in England or like in Spain there
were 90% in the in the country of the population were against the war and the government said I'm pro war so they
supported America kind of the same in England and I'm I'm really sorry but this has nothing to do with democracy you know when it's happening like this
so um and this is a scary fact you know that it's although it's so visual that something is so wrong here in this world
it's it's they're going to get along with this you know and there are still people in America and this is what I don't understand you know especially
yeah like yesterday on September 11th where they where they say yeah I want you know like people from New York who
lost uh who lost family but I and I cannot imagine it you know and it's really hard for me out of my position to
say you should be against the war because there's a lot of hate and lot of fear but on the other hand I think why
do they want for other people what happened to them you know and this is the main thing you know and when then they see you know their president or
like because it's their president you know you as no matter what you say you can go away from America you can say I
don't like George Bush at all but it's [ __ ] your president you know even though he's not elected really you know when you when you count all the votes
but there must be something else or then you just say I don't know you have to start movement let's say what we living is not a democracy because this
President what's right now in charge is not the elected president no and this is this is like
small things just I think at beginning I don't I don't expect because humans are humans I don't expect that like in the
next 3 months everything Chang changes but I'm for me I would wish that at least at the next election I can see
some difference you know like a new party I don't know I read about Ral nater I don't I mean I just read I don't know what he's doing I just read that
he's different but there are options you know and why don't use them like tonight
we went to this um sand pit on the western side of the wall but like w right there and you walk through the
gate and into this wall and like that's something that doesn't really exist in New York but I mean it does stuff like that's in America of
course but I don't know I feel like there's a place for everybody here and in America I just don't I mean I feel like within
New York yeah like everybody has a place yeah but I'm I'm really sorry this is Berlin you know but you just just go I'm really this is like you know what I told
about New York you know just go like 50 km around Berlin and this is what I found out here you know because I know
it more than America it's not about that the people would hate that it's been there like here like in Berlin it's just
because they don't have any option you know they hardly have a job and it looks like in Eastern Germany
there it's like um there's lots of alcohol because it's the only care what they have I mean there's Church some
kind too although I think in Germany Church is so much different like what I like I noticed from America was because
Church in Germany is not like you have to believe in God Church in Germany also cares about people who are not believing
in God because this is what church is about I think it's a shelter kind of and so it's a
really it's a really sad place and that's why you know that's that's is why
um you know in like small villages you have sometimes so maybe the same problems like in America you know like when for I mean
for example when a black guy I mean black people are or like are here in in Germany are really rare you know in Berlin it's more because they come from
all over the world but um it's not about because I don't know he there's really
few black people like I don't know like in India is not so are not so many white people you know just like it's just
natural but if if a black people would go through through a small village in
Brandenburg I think it could be scary but it's because first thing they don't know at
all they don't know black people you know they just know them from film from media but they don't know about them you
know and then and then like I mean there are some stupid parties here I mean there are mostly forbidden but there are
like neo-nazis and fascists like in small villages because this is their only explanation you know it's like we are Germans here
and we don't have work but I don't know in the big cities Turkish people have work for example Turkish immigrants you
know and it's the the saddest thing is that it's what I talked before you know I actually I want people humans to start
thinking far over the first idea what they come in their mind because the first idea is hey these guys come here and they kill our jobs so these guys are
the bad guys okay we have the thought let's put it here let's think more what else could it be why we don't have a job and this is the thing then they would
come to the point that of course it's strange to see like a foreign or like a like a I don't know like a Turkish people or like black people because they
don't know it so everyone in the world has um how do you call it [ __ ] I forgot
the word anyway you think sometimes before you were there you know before you make the um the experience you have
a certain opinion before you know like I don't know when I see a country musician guy I think or he
maybe is really conservative for example and then I say okay it's yeah Prejudice you know but this is also the problem
like in all the promoting to be open-minded they say prejudices are bad but hey this is something very natural and you need to have prejudices to go to
an experience you know to change it if you don't have any anything what is not true what cannot happen at all you won't
experience anything you know you don't need to when you don't have a Prejudice you don't need to think about the person
or the the situation what you have Prejudice of and you don't need to think about yourself you know because it's just about a
real relation between you and something new and this is the thing you know I want actually it would be happy when
people start thinking more over like in German we say cooking
it's just like um watching over the plates and you know like just you eat your soup and don't look like this but
just like look what's there you know to open your horizon I just want to ask you about one
I'm not sure if I understod I'm thinking back on something you said earlier when you said do we need to go to war with America
and defeat them so that they understand that war is bad yeah like do you me I I
don't understand that do you mean like as a metaphor like yeah of course I I mean I would never go you know the thing
yeah no no yeah yeah yeah yeah but but um it's about um okay I tell you what it's a good example you know as a kid
you learn when you go in the kitchen to the hot plates and you make and it's hot and you do it hurts you know so next
time you do this it hurts too when you grow older and older you know that for example um like a small hot plate hurt
you can't touch it maybe it hurts and you know okay the small plate hurts so much and a big [ __ ] plate hurts so
much more and this is what I mean you know so when you experience this thing happened what was actually really big
but I'm really sorry it's and it's really bad in for the people in New York I guess but in comparison to what
happened every day in the world New York was nothing it was just big because it's was New York and it was America and
because it was the first time that the the the Glamorous world because this is I think this is the thing New York is a
New York is a [ __ ] city in the world you know this is the main city you know where everyone who knows about America and who knows about cities who know
knows also that if there is one blueprint for a city this is New York you know and so you know when they know
that you know all over the world like every day so many people are dying because of American industry and not
only American because of worldwide corporations um and this happens because of the like bomb attempts maybe happens
because of this um they should think okay when we do wall now we make it even more worse so what we respond to this could be more
bigger so that's what I mean you know does it does it come do it have to come you know do I don't do I have to touch
the big hot mega hot plate to know that it hurts although I actually could imagine that it will hurt or or should
or can we just think okay the small hurts so the big one hurts so much more you know this is what I mean did you you
have that thing that you said to oh it's it's funny um it's also very funny thing
about gdr you know um you guys know I guess about um stazi stazi was like Min
Ministry of uh interior affairs minister for or like Ministry of State security or country
security and the friend of Amy um came I don't know like three months ago and they in America the open day there's
suitcase to do like a do like a I don't know a test if there's something in it you know they don't do it with everyone they just do it sometimes you know to
check and this is what happened after September 11th you know they formed this what was name US Department of Homeland
Security you know and you guys who talk about likei there like G but I'm sorry it's just the [ __ ] same name and what
you guys doing is the same thing you know it's like this is I mean it's just this is just a it's you you get the your
lock back what get opened by Department of Homeland Security and this is actually the saddest thing you know yesterday I saw
on TV there was a woman who said um yeah you know it was so it was an American woman from New York she said um
it was so horrible what happened and when we do this fight against or war against Terror I'm I would agree that I
have to limit my liberal personal rights and to do this you know and this is I'm sorry but this is this is your this is
this is actually exactly what the government wants you know because they won't have more power and if you say okay you know
next maybe for the next elections they say or the next vote they say we have to make this war so we cannot do elections
next year would would they they say okay okay yeah we have to do this war because it's against the terror that's why it's okay I don't elect the new president you
know and what's then you know then then you have I don't know then you cannot call it democracy then it's more like a
king and his people and when they you know they can follow the king or they can [ __ ] leave the country but this
is the good this is the good thing about um America um love to their country you know this is what I actually actually
this is this is the stuff what I'm really interested in you know because I can tell that people in America love
their country because it's a beautiful country like Germany is a beautiful country for me I mean I'm not so I don't
know I mean I'm traveling so much so I don't know but it's um it's so they love their country they
do they have want to have to hate their country because of their president because the country makes bad stuff or
like the the government does like Wars and stuff um or can they say hey this is our country and I want this the best
country for everyone you know even for like foreign people I want them that they when that they want to come to America they want to see how how
beautiful is here they want to see what I like about my country you know and this is and I think America have really strong relationship to their country you
know so maybe it's more about I don't know promoting their their love to what really makes America and I don't think
that companies and government makes America I think the people in America makes America and this is what you talk
about you know America is a land of unlimited possibilities this is what you're still promoting but use the
[ __ ] uh possibilities and this is I think the idea or just or like prove prove to the world that America is
really the the country of unlimited possibilities right now it's get kind of proved in a really bad
way do you um oh there one there's one thing what I want to say go go um what I
I think was scary that after September 11th America thought they have to be America has to show that it's that it's
strong and now we go to a war you know we have you know America have to show his strengths by doing a war but I for
for myself personally I think it would be such a more statement of America strength to say no we change things here
we don't want to we don't want to follow this spiral we don't follow want to follow this procedure of bomb attempt of
War this is would be this would be for me strength you know strength has nothing to do with the [ __ ] biggest car or the biggest tank you
know awesome um I only have a minute left but I think it's okay um it's not enough
time but does anyone ever talk about the relationship or maybe maybe you brought this up about the like weird coincidence
of the September 11th thing and our war against Terror H versus The Hitlers burning the
r dog and then blaming it as using it as as far as I know because I mean we all learned this in Eastern Germany Germany
in school you learn German history really really much um it was like
903 three was when there was a huge fire at RAR at the like the parliament of
Germany or dutes R I think at this time and um they found out like two days later or
a day later they found out like like a Netherland guy did it and he was related to some
other like Communists like G diit was actually the famous one was like he was like it's a hero in Bulgaria right now
um and they they they catch this guy with the book with the book of the Communist Party of um the Netherlands in
his back pocket of his trousers what I think it's so it's so ridiculous you know it's like okay me you could have
like like a t-shirt or something like I'm a communist and now I burn this so this how it looks and after this they
forbid the Communists and after this really like the this was a missing thing what the the
missing like sympathy in the the main public was that they all voted to
National socialists to the fascists so in the end you know they used this thing that they say communism is bad and we
have to do something against this like foreign [ __ ] so we have to we have to make a um a own German country a own
German Nation so and I think this is similar into September 11 in in the way how how media because I
mean at this time in comparison to now this there was no media at this time there was only newspapers you know um but the same thing happened also with
the beginning of second world war where they and this is definitely proved is like you know there was one
day I me it was like I think two weeks ago um but in oh [ __ ] I'm really [ __ ]
bad you know I think it was 1942 but I'm really I'm really bad I'm really really bad with this anyway um
there was this a radio station uh called zener gitz in the Polish border from
Germany and and one morning they say in the radio like polish soldiers are like
shooting all buildings and G the like the propaganda Minister said and from in
the morning from 6:00 we shooting back and they found out later these were German soldiers with Polish uniforms
shooting German Border Station just to have a reason to go to Poland you know
what was a beginning of second world war and this has some s similarities to September 11th because what I read and
honestly I think this is true that they planned the war against Afghanistan already two years before because it's um
America supported the Taliban regime because they wanted to have the oil from the from the um
region and because it's like in Afghanistan you have mujahadin were the guys who were against the Russians in
the Afghanistan war and you have lots of tribes and the Taliban were the strongest tribe and they also Taliban
were interested in money in in Western like technology so they America dealed with the Taliban about building it's
like company Unocal or something they dealed about the pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil to to the
ocean to America um and there was a point that's actually interesting because there was a meeting in Berlin I think in
the in the summer of 2002 like a secret meeting between
members of Taliban members of American officials and Secret Service stuff and
the Taliban they wanted to they want to kind of sell their the the this pipeline to
America and say okay we want to have this amount of money and then you can do it but um America didn't want it to pay that much and there was also a huge
pressure on on the Taliban because it was also a regime you know they they tortured their women and kids
and stuff and I mean this sounds really propagandistic right now um but I mean this is what I read and this is what about what you read all over the world
you know in like newspapers that this is It's a pretty hardcore um way how they try to stay in charge in Afghanistan the
Taliban so America didn't want it to do this deal with the Taliban so they plann to make a war that they they want them
if you don't sell this for this this much money we want to pay you we you go to a war and this was in summer of 2001
so after this they planned already a war against Afghanistan and then September 11th happened and then there was the war
of Afghanistan and this but this was after September 11th the Public Public
of all the world they know okay now there's a war against Afghanistan because of 10 11s but I don't think that this was the main reason so there's a
lot of questions about this September 11s you know and I was really shocked last last week there were they opened
the telephone protocols for of the buildings of the World Trade Center with a huge media thing you know like Time
Magazine and Newsweek they all want want they they put a huge pressure on the on the owner of the buildings that they
just uh open the files you know with the protocols of the telephone stuff what happened in in the World Trade Center
and now now it's open and it sounds really hardcore when I say this but this is what you read There is
what you expect what you can read Because you hear scared people who calling their relatives or calling the police who are because they're on the
buildings and the buildings get hit and they don't know what to do and they see people jumping out of the windows all the scary stuff what really happened
there you know and I don't want to deny it not at all and but I don't this is something what we knew before
and this for me it looks it feels so yellow press because it plays with so simple emotions but what I want you know
and I don't understand you know as a journalist Time Magazine and Newsweek they should ask what's about the
passengers lists what's about um all the unanswered question on September 11th this is what is what should be interesting you know but it's not you
know it's interesting how scared are some some really sad and and poor people in the buildings I know go want to die
you know this is this is this is modern you know it's about entertainment you know and I think journalism is not always about
entertainment the qu the problem is in this one book what I read about um it's written I think by
American um is that he analyzes all the wars of America since uh the war against uh
Spain was about Texas and stuff and they found out that there was always really strange reasons for the war or something
strange happened before like there was you know at this first war like against Texas there was a provocation from
American troops on the border to Texas and they they did a military um training thing like shooting really close to the
borders and the Spain people the Mexican soldiers they were really like I don't know what's going on here and then of course they shot the first time you know
they shouldn't have done it everyone in the world knows that they shouldn't done it but this was a provocation then uh Vietnam War was the same thing know like
some mysterious American ship got um shot you know in in the you know in the
country of Vietnam you know and I'm really sorry know American ship military ship has nothing to do in the foreign
Count's um you know like state or country you know and there's also open question was there was there really
shooting there and stuff you know but this is not it you know no one there the fires aren't open about this but the fires are opened on Pearl Harbor you
know that really no one really almost no one in PE haror know that knew that that the
Japanese uh going to going to attack PE haror but somewhere in Washington and they really found out you can't read it
you just need to do internet research and reading books they knew that they come you know so it was the best possible reason in the end it sounds
hardcore to do this war against against against Japan Japan you know and in the end you know you know when you talk with
you know I have friends who who got really attacked by Americans in a discussion like this because they say oh
what should shouldn't we okay we should didn't needed to to liberate you here in in Germany you know because then you
would be still like concentration camps and stuff it's not about this of course we are thankful we are thankful that
Americans and Russians and English and France and all the Allies who came to Germany and liberated for us but in the
end we should have done it too you know it's not it was all fall fall too you know but it don't needs this reason you
know it don't needs Pearl Harbor and it don't needs like this this public propaganda you know to to make a war you
know because if it's I don't know it's really and the scary thing that that all
almost every war what America did till now has really mysterious reasons you know may maybe people should I don't
know like in school you know maybe they should should talk about one one lessons in in the [ __ ] whole long School talk
about the beginning of wars and let the pupils in the school ask questions you know and this is about I think it's
about you know I'm I cannot answer on questions and this is actually what I think what is a good way to do to change your country
in in starting answer asking questions you know say go go go tell tell your ask your
friends why do we go to war or why does September 11th happened you know and ask to the point till there's no um
explanation to this and then you ask someone you think who could know you know and I think on the way to asking you open your mind and the one you ask
he open his mind too and this is um then I'm actually it's really
interesting because in the end we we as Germans we have a really strange
relationship to our country because um it's funny because we do with a band right now I think a project what's it's
called angang and it's about um opening or like change your relation relation to your country you know
because for for me when I see you know I see the German flag the black red and yellow thing um
at like a public or like official government things I think okay it's a country it's a color of our country but when I see it on someone like like um I
mean soccer fans okay but when I see someone on the street with a t-shirt
what says Germany I think oh this is strange he could be maybe a fascist you know but it shouldn't be like this you
know because you can you can say I am from Germany and I like my country although I mean although there are lots
of bad things but I believe in my country because the only thing that my country can change is to believe in it and this is the the way and we are
trying to open up this this idea you know and for us you know when you in German say three times Doland doand Doland it sounds really strange because
you remind you get reminded about Hitler saying Germany saying deand you know and I don't I don't want this you know
because and also after the war came down what I think every East German realizes
that real life is not about borders you know and it's about and we are I think
I'm I want to be a world Citizen and on this way to be a world citizen but I have to Define where I come from you
know even if I leave it you know I don't think that Germany is special and it's or is it's not special or is is special
like Spain is special for Spain people so it's equal in the end but we have we had a pretty good opportunity because I
mean we did Germany did really horrible things in two world wars and it's only
50 years ago and we are pretty good here you know look we have we can live there's no International districts and
stuff but I think this is our job to change it you know to do something different now you know to use this opportunity what you have you know that
there was a possibility like 5 years after the war that there's a new German country can can um develop you know I
mean could has also been that been that Eastern Germany belongs to Russia really and Western Germany belongs to America
England and France you know this could be also happened you know but this is and this is this is the way what I think
you know and for us sometimes it's scary you know for example when you see a um
um Tommy hillfigure at he plays it's it's American flag you know what he what all the dresses look like American flags
you have the Stars you have black red and white blue black blue red and white and when I would imagine when a German
designer would do this how we [ __ ] get all get scared you know so we are we
are more sensitive about what's make what makes a nation you know does it makes our we are Germans or does it
makes we are Comm we are like I don't know 20 Millions I don't I don't know what how much I'm so bad with numbers
but we are like we are people who grown up here and we want to be World citizens you know and this is this is under way
you know and I think in America it's the same thing maybe maybe or I mean in France they also love their French
colors you know everywhere Denmark you know you see everywhere Danish Flags you know but we as Germans it's really
interesting because we never would question it really in different countries but we would question is in our country and this
is but I think we come we here come more to the point that it doesn't matters you know I don't actually I don't [ __ ]
care about our flag and you know in the end I would be really happy when no one in the world would care about their flag
he knows that is all my flag and when I do something for my country I can be proud of but I can you know this is so
the the worst thing about for example Neo fascists in Germany they say I'm
proud to be in German and I say right now I mean right now I can be I can be
proud to be in Berlin Berliner because I start changing things in Berlin so there's something what I did you know
but when you are born when you're a 2ye old or like one month old kid you you can there's nothing what you can be proud of you can be proud of be a human
but what did you did for it you know so maybe you should requestion this you know when when an American say yeah I'm proud of America but what what are you
really proud of you know what did you did you know to be proud of or just as I said before like throwing yourself into
the River of Life life you know just something's good going to happen you know
People Referenced
Andy Penn, Tom Sachs, Michael Moore